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jia123
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ÂÂ 2004-10-16, 05:50 AM #1
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jia123Â÷½u¤¤  
ken6355
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ÂÂ 2004-10-16, 06:46 AM #2
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ken6355Â÷½u¤¤  
tnt4
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¥[¤J¤é´Á: Apr 2002
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¤Þ­zCDRLabsºô¤ÍHalcªº»¡ªk

I got my c't 21/2004 issue as well. Some tidbits:

BURNERS

+ The best DVD+R 16x / DVD+R DL burner was not the inventors of the plus format, but Pioneer! It was the only drive to score usable burns on all 16 and DL + media. The trick? It burned 2 of the 3 media at 4x. Still, if one considers the average user, that's what the drive SHOULD do: burn at the highest SAFE setting and not with the higest settings that produces useless burns.

+ Nec is a very good -R burner, no doubt about that. It only stumbles by trying to burn 8x DVD-R MCC 02RG20/Taiwan at 12x. It's indirect lower level measures are also consistently among the best for -R media. On +R media it is so good, it hurts (burns at 8x). Only fails by trying to burn 8x DVD+R TY T02 at 16x and trying to burn MCC DL media at 4x. If those results are discarded, it's so much better burner in total than any of the others (IMHO).

+ LG is the leasty noisy burner/reader of them all. Not surprisinginly, LiteOn burner is subjectively more than twice as loud (something which is a proud tradition for LiteOn).

+ For DVD playback Nec is clearly the most silent (dvd at 1x). Pioneer is close second, but others come far behind.

- LG, BenQ and Pioneer are not very good at +R 8x media, because they try to burn them at 12x or faster, resulting in really unhealthy looking measurements from the discs. Probably they are much better at 8x, but 12x surely wasn't usable with those firmwares tested.

- Both Philips and BenQ fail on Philips 16x DVD+R (burned at 16x). I find that quite amusing

- LiteOn based burners fail on so many burns/media it is not even funny anymore. They really need to start getting their act together. Either they should delay their launches 6 months and ship with actually working firmware, or then just manufacture better hardware.

= If I would buy a single burner based on that test, it would again be Nec 3500. While LG, Pioneer and BenQ look promising, they are trying to push the limits by burning too fast for their own good. For average users (who will burn at max speed without thinking) they are not good choices. LiteOn I wouldn't recommend to anyone. People should just stop buying their crap and they would be forced to come out with a burner that just works. Now their burners are interesting activity generators (patch this, patch that, hack this, hack that, try this disc, don't try that, etc. ad nauseum)

MEDIA

+ Looks like MCC DL media was some kind of test media for DL burning for most manufacturers. It's results are so consistently good across the board.

- With three total failures (not even CATS could read the burns) and other burns being below spec of marginally usable, I consider Ritek DL media to be pretty much useless with those firmware revisions tested.

- Not a single 8x -R or +R media is ready to be overspeed burned succesfully on all drives to 12x or 16x. Some drives succesfully overspeed burn some media, but none of the media is overspeed burned succesfully on all the drives. Neither is none of the drives able to succesfully overspeed burn all the media. In short, overspeed burning is really only for thrill seekers, who don't give a toss about burn quality. IMHO.

SUMMARY
It was interesting to see that the results of firmware are so important on burn quality. Much more so at 16x and 8x than at 4x/2x.

Also, DL at 2.4x is usable with MCC media. This was quite a surprise to me. I was really expecting mediocre results with most. The scans look actually almost good (not superior though).

All in all, a very informative test again. I hope c't will continue to investigate burn quality in the future as well.

¬Ý¤£À´ªº¡A¬Ý¬Ý¦³¨S¦³¤H­n½Ķ¤@¤UÅo!
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ÂÂ 2004-10-16, 07:08 AM #3
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tnt4Â÷½u¤¤  
benchei
Power Member
 
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ÂÂ 2004-10-16, 07:42 AM #4
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bencheiÂ÷½u¤¤  
jsmithjp
Advance Member
 

¥[¤J¤é´Á: Dec 2003
¤å³¹: 488
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§@ªÌtnt4
I got my c't 21/2004 issue as well. Some tidbits:
........
LiteOn I wouldn't recommend to anyone. People should just stop buying their crap and they would be forced to come out with a burner that just works. Now their burners are interesting activity generators (patch this, patch that, hack this, hack that, try this disc, don't try that, etc. ad nauseum)
...


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ÂÂ 2004-10-16, 08:29 AM #5
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jsmithjpÂ÷½u¤¤  
kodjou
Senior Member
 
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¥[¤J¤é´Á: Jun 2003
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§Ú¤]±o¨ì§Úªºc't 21/2004 °ÝÃD¡C ¤@¨Ç¨ý¬ü¦Óµ}¦³ªº­¹«~¡J

³Ì¦nªºDVD+R 16x / DVD+R DL ¿U¿N¾¹¤£¬O¥¿§Î¦¡ªºµo©úªÌ¡A¦Ó¬O¶}µoªÌªº¿U¿N¾¹+¡T ¦b¥þ³¡16 ©MDL + ´C¤¶¤Wűo¥i¥Îªº¿N¶Ë¬O°ß¤@ªº¹B°Ê¡C ³o­Ó­p¿Ñ¶Ü¡H ¥¦¦b4x¿N·´3ºØ´C¤¶¤¤ªº2ºØ¡C ¤´µM¡A¦pªG¤@­Ó¤H¦Ò¼{¥­§¡¥Î¤á¡A¨º¬O¹B°ÊÀ³¸Ó°µªº¡J ¦b¦Ó¤£¥Î²£¥Í¨S¥Îªº¿N¶Ëªºhigest³]¸mªº³Ì°ªªº¦w¥þªº³]¸m¿U¿N¡C + Nec¬O¤@­Ó«D±`¦nRªº¿U¿N¾¹¡A¨S¦³¹ï¨ºªºÃhºÃ¡C ¥¦¥u³z¹L§V¤O¦b12x¿U¿N8x DVD-R¹q°Ê¾÷±±¨î¤¤¤ß02RG 20 /¥xÆW²Ì¶^¡C §ó§Cªº¤ô·Ç±¹¬I¦b³Ì¦nªº¬°Rªº´C¤¶¤¤¶¡¬O¤]¤@³e¬O¶¡±µªº¡C Ãö©ó+R ´C¤¶¥¦¦p¦¹¦n¡A¥¦¨ü¶Ë(¦b8x¿U¿N)¡C ¥u³z¹L§V¤O¦b16x©M§V¤O¦b4x¿U¿N¹q°Ê¾÷±±¨î¤¤¤ßDL ´C¤¶¿U¿N8x DVD+R®õT02 ¥¢±Ñ¡C »P¨ä¥L¥ô¦ó¤H(IMHO)¬Û¤ñ¸û¡A¦pªG¨º¨Çµ²ªG³Q¥á±¼¡A¥¦¥þ³¡¬O¦p¦¹§ó¦nªº¿U¿N¾¹¡C + LG¬Oleasty ¥L­Ì¥þ³¡ªº¹ËÂøªº¿U¿N¾¹/ ŪªÌ¡C ¨Ã«Dsurprisinginly¡ALiteOn ¿U¿N¾¹¥DÆ[¦h¤_¨â­¿ÅT«Gªº(¬OLiteOnªº¤@ºØÅº¶Æªº¹D²Îªº¬Y¨Ç¨Æ±¡)¡C DVD °t­µÁÙ­µNecªº+ÅãµM¬O³Ì±IÀRªº(¦b1xªºdvd)¡C ¶}µoªÌªñ²Ä¤G­Ó¡A¦ý¬O¨ä¥¦¤HÂ÷±o»·¨Ó¡C - LG¡A BenQ©M¶}µoªÌ¤£«D±`¾Õªø+R 8x ´C¤¶¡A ¦]¬°¥L­Ì§V¤O¦b12x©ÎªÌ§ó¨³³t¿U¿N¥L­Ì¡A¯uªº¤£°·±dªº¬Ýªº¤Ø¤o¬O¥Ñ©ó¥úºÐ¾É­P¡C ©Î³\¥L­Ì«D±`¾Õªø8x¡A¦ý¬O12x ªÖ©w¥Î´ú¸Õªº¨º¨Ç©T¥ó¤£¥i¥Î¡C - µá§Q®ú©MBenQ¦bµá§Q®ú16x DVD+R(¦b16x¿N·´)¯}²£¡C I find that quite amusing

- LiteOn based burners fail on so many burns/media it is not even funny anymore. ¥L­Ì¯uªº»Ý­n¶}©l¶°¤¤¤ß«ä¡C ¥L­Ì¯à©µ¿ð¥L­Ì¨T¸¥6 ¤ë©M²î¦b¹ê»Ú¤W¤u§@©T¥ó¡A©ÎªÌ»s³y¹ê¦bµM«á¦nµwÅé®É¡C =¦pªG§Ú±N¶R¤@­Ó°ò¤_¨º¦¸¸ÕÅ窺³æ­Óªº¿U¿N¾¹¡A¥¦¦A¦¸±N¬ONec 3500¡C ·íLG¡A¶}µoªÌ©MBenQ ¬Ý°_¨Ó¦³§Æ±æ®É¡A¥L­Ì¸Õ¹Ï³z¹L¹ï¤_¥L­Ì¦Û¤vªº§Q¯q¨Ó»¡¤Ó¨³³t¦a¿U¿N±À­­¨î¡C ¹ï¥­§¡¥Î¤á(±N¥H³Ì¤jªº³t«×¿U¿N¦Ó¨S¦³»{¬°)¨Ó»¡¥L­Ì¤£¬O¦n¿ï¾Ü¡C §Ú±N¤£¦V¥ô¦ó¤H±ÀÂ˪ºLiteOn¡C ¤H­Ì±N°±¤î¶R¥L­Ìªº»ë¤l¡A¥L­Ì±N³Q­¢¤½§G¥u¤u§@ªº¤@­Ó¿U¿N¾¹¡C ²{¤U¥L­Ìªº¿U¿N¾¹¬O¦³½ìªº¬¡°Êµo¹q¾÷( ¸É¤B³o,¸É¤B¨º,¶Ã¬å³o,¶Ã¬å¨º,¸Õ¸Õ³o­Ó¥úºÐ,¤£¸ÕÅ稺,µ¥µ¥¼s§inauseum)´C¤¶+¬Ý°_¨Ó¶H¹q°Ê¾÷±±¨î¤¤¤ßDL ´C¤¶¬ODL ¬°¤j¦h¼Æ»s³y°Ó¿U¿Nªº¬YºØ¸ÕÅç´C¤¶¡C ¥¦¬Oµ²ªG¥þ­±¦p¦¹¤@³e¬O¦nªº¡C - ¥Ñ©ó3 ¹ý©³¥¢®Ä(¬Æ¦Ü¨S¦³¿ß¯àŪ¿N¶Ë)©M¨ä¥L¿N¶Ë¬O¦bµy·L¥i¥Îªºspec¤U­±¡A §Ú»{¬°Ritek¬°DL ´C¤¶¥Î¨º¨Ç­Ó©T¥ó´X¥G¨S¥Î´ú¸Õªº­×¥¿¡C - ¹ï12x©ÎªÌ16x¦b¥þ³¡¹B°Ê¤W¿N·´succesfully¡A8x-R©ÎªÌ+R ´C¤¶·Ç³Æ¬Ooverspeed¡C ¤@¨Ç¹B°Êsuccesfully overspeed¿U¿N¤@¨Ç´C¤¶¡A¦b¥þ³¡¹B°Ê¤W¿N·´succesfully¡A¦ý¬O´C¤¶³£¤£¬Ooverspeed¡C ¬J¤£¤£¬O¹ïsuccesfully overspeed¯à·Fªº¹B°Ê¿U¿N¥þ³¡´C¤¶¡C ²¦Ó¨¥¤§¡A¿U¿Nªºoverspeed ¯uªº¥u¬°¤£Ãö©ó¿N¶Ë½è¶qµ¹¤@¦¸¥µªº¾_Ÿ·P±´¯ÁªÌ¡C IMHO¡C ºK­n¬Ý¨£©T¥óªºµ²ªGÃö©ó¿N¶Ë½è¶q¦p¦¹­«­n¬O¦³½ìªº¡C ¤ñ§ó¥[¦p¦¹¦b16x ©M8x»P¦b4x/2x¬Û¤ñ¡C ¦¹¥~¡A¦b2.4xªºDL»P¹q°Ê¾÷±±¨î¤¤¤ß´C¤¶¤@°_¥i¥Î¡C ³o¬O¹ï§Úªº¬Û·í¤£¿ùªºÅå©_¡C §Ú¯uªº¥¿¥Î³Ì´Á±æ¥­±eªºµ²ªG¡C ±½´y¬Ý°_¨Ó¹ê»Ú¤W´X¥G¦n(¥i¬O¤£Àu¨})¡C Á`ªº»¡¨Ó¡A¦A¦¸ªº¤@¦¸«D±`°T®§Â×´Iªº¸ÕÅç¡C §Ú§Æ±æc't ±NÄ~Äò½Õ¬d¿U¿N½è¶q±N¨Ó¤]¡C
ÂÂ 2004-10-16, 08:35 AM #6
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kodjouÂ÷½u¤¤  
¸ô¤H¶Ã¤J
Elite Member
 
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¥[¤J¤é´Á: Oct 2003
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§@ªÌtnt4
I got my c't 21/2004 issue as well. Some tidbits:

BURNERS

+ The best DVD+R 16x / DVD+R DL burner was not the inventors of the plus format, but Pioneer! It was the only drive to score usable burns on all 16 and DL + media. The trick? It burned 2 of the 3 media at 4x. Still, if one considers the average user, that's what the drive SHOULD do: burn at the highest SAFE setting and not with the higest settings that produces useless burns.

+ Nec is a very good -R burner, no doubt about that. It only stumbles by trying to burn 8x DVD-R MCC 02RG20/Taiwan at 12x. It's indirect lower level measures are also consistently among the best for -R media. On +R media it is so good, it hurts (burns at 8x). Only fails by trying to burn 8x DVD+R TY ...


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¦pªGÀò±oÃÒ¹ê¡A¤p§Ì·|¦Ò¼{¥Î¤À´Á±Ñ©±ùتºNEC 3500A....µM«á©ñ±óLITEON§@¤H±¡¾÷..

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§Ú¤]±o¨ì§Úªºc't 21/2004 ©Òµo§Gªºµ²ªG¡C´£¨Ñ¤@¨Ç³ø§i°T®§¡J

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+ ³Ì¦nªºDVD+R 16x / DVD+R DL ¤£¬Oplus°}À窺¶}µoªÌ¡A¦Ó¬Opioneerªº + ¡I³o¬O¦b¥þ³¡16 ©MDL + ¥úºÐ¤ù¤Wűo¥i¥Îªº¿N¿ý¤§¤¤¡A¬O°ß¤@ªº¿N¿ý¾÷¡C³o­Ó¬O¬ãµo¼t°Óªº­p¿Ñ¶Ü¡H¥¦¦b4x ¯à¿N¿ý¤TºØ·Ñ¤¶(À³«ü¡Ï¡B¡Ð¡B¢Ò¢Ú)¡AµM¦Ó¦pªG¶}µoªÌ¦Ò¼{¥­§¡¥Î¤áªº¸Ü¡A¨º¬O¥úºÐ¾÷¼t°ÓÀ³¸Ó­n°µ¨ìªº(¥ÎSHOULD...ªí¥Ü§@ªÌÆZ¿E°Êªº)¡G¿N¿ý¦b°ª¤ô·Çªº¦w¥þ³]©w¥H¤Î¤£­n¸ò®ø¶OªÌ°Q»ùÁÙ»ù¦a²£¥Í¨S¦³»ù­Èªº¿N¿ý¤ù¡C


+ NEC¬O«D±`¦nªº -R¿N¿ý¾¹¡A¨S¦³¥ô¦óªºÃhºÃ¡C¥¦¥u¬O¹Á¸Õ®É®â¦b8X DVD-R¤TµÙ 02RG20/¥xÆW»s(©ó)12Xªºªí²{¡C¥¦(NEC 3500A)¨ã³Æ§ó§Cªº¤ô·Ç±¹¬I(«üPIªº±±¨îµ{«×)¦b³Ì¦nªº-Rªº¥úºÐ¤ù¤¤¶¡¬O¤]¤@³e¬O¶¡±µªº¡CÃö©ó+R¥úºÐ¤ùªºªí²{¬O¦p¦¹ªº¨}¦n¡A¥¦®âµ¹¦b8X¿N¿ýªºªí²{(CD-R¹êÅç«Ç§@ªÌªí¥Ü8X¿N¿ý±Ä¥ÎZ-CLV)¡C¥¦¶È¦³¿é¦b¿N¿ý8X DVD+R TY T02¬V®ÆªÅ¤ù©ó16X¿N¿ý¥H¤Î¹Á¸Õ¿N¿ý¤TµÙDLªÅ¤ù¦b4Xªºªí²{¡C(3500A)¸ò¨ä¥L¿N¿ý¾¹¬Û¤ñ¸û°_¨Ó¡A¥¦¤´µMºâ¬O¤ñ¸û¦nªº¿N¿ý¾¹¡C

+ LG¬O¦b¿N¿ý¾¹¤¤³Ì¦wÀRªº¡A¨Ã¤£·|Åý¤H·P¨ì·N¥~¡CLiteOn¿N¿ý¾¹¦b¥DÆ[¤W·|¤ñ¥¦¨ã³Æ¤j¨â­¿¥H¤WªºÁn­µ(³o¨ÇÆ[ÂIºâ¬O¨Ó¦Û©óLiteOnź¶Æªº¶Ç²Î)¡C

+ ¦b©óDVD¼·©ñ¤è­± NECÅãµM¬O³Ì¦wÀRªº(¦b1XªºDVD®É)¡CPIONEER¥H·L¤pªº®t¶Z©~©ó²Ä¤G¡A¦ý¬O¨ä¥Lªºªº¿N¿ý¾÷´N®t«Ü¦h¤F...


- LG¡BBENQ»PPIONEER«D±`¤£¾Õªø +R 8X¿N¿ý¤ù¡A¦]¬°¥¦­Ì­P¤O¹Á¸Õ©ó12X©Î§ó§Öªº³t«×¥h¿N¿ý¨º¨Ç¥úºÐ¤ù¡A¾É­P¹ê»Ú¤W´ú¶q(PI­È)³o¨Ç¿N¿ý¤ù®É¡A¬Ý°_¨Ó³£½T¹ê¬O¤£¨}«~ªºÆ[·P¡C©Î³\¥¦­Ì«D±`¾Õªø8x¡F¦ý¬O¦b12x®ÉµLºÃ¦aªÖ©w¨º¨Ç°bÅ餣¥i¥H¥Î¨Ó´ú¸Õ(NERO CD-DVD SPEED)¡C

- µá§Q®ú©MBenQ¦bµá§Q®ú16x DVD+R(¦b16x¿N¿ýªí²{¤W)§¹¥þ¥¢±Ñ¡C §Úµo²{¨º¤Q¤À¦³½ì

- LiteOnªº°ò¦¿N¿ýªí²{¡A¦b³o¨Ç¿N¿ý/¥úºÐ¤ù´ú¸Õ¥­¥x¤Wºâ¬O¥¢±Ñªº¡A³o¤£¦A¬O¯º¸Ü¡C¥L­Ì(LiteOnªº¬ãµo¸s)¯uªº»Ý­n¶}©l¶°¤¤¤ß«ä¡A¥L­ÌÀ³¸Ó­n©µ¿ð6­Ó¤ë«á¦A±À¥X¥L­Ìªº²£«~¡A©ÎªÌ¬O¥¿¦¡»s³y®É±À¥X¤ñ¸û¦nªº°bÅé¡C

= ¦pªG§Ú¯à°÷¦A¶R¤@¦¸¿N¿ý¾¹¨Ó°Ñ»P¸ÕÅç¡A¥¦ÁÙ¬ONEC 3500A¡C·íLG¡APIONEER©MBenQ ¬Ý°_¨Ó¦³§Æ±æ®É¡A¥L­Ì¸Õ¹Ï³z¹L¹ï©ó¥L­Ì¦Û¤vªº§Q¯q¨Ó»¡¡A¤Ó§Ö¦a±À¥X¿N¿ý¾¹¡C¹ï¤@¯ë¥Î¤á(±N¥H³Ì¤jªº³t«×¿N¿ýªºÆ[ÂI¨Ó«ä¦Ò)¨Ó»¡¡A¥¦­Ì¨Ã¤£¬O¦nªº¿ï¾Ü¡C§Ú±N¤£¦V¥ô¦ó¤H±ÀÂ˨ϥÎLiteOn¡C¤H­Ì±N°±¤î¶R¥L­Ìªº©U§£¡A¥L­Ì±N³Q­¢¤½§G¥u¤u§@ªº¤@­Ó¿N¿ý¾÷¡C²{¤U¥L­Ìªº¿N¿ý¾÷¬O¦³½ìªº¬¡°Êµo¹q¾÷(­×¸É³o¡A­×¸É¨º¡A¯}¸Ñ³o¡A¯}¸Ñ¨º¡A¸Õ¸Õ³o­Ó¥úºÐ¡A ¤£­n¸ÕÅ稺¡A¥O¤H§@äú)
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ÂÂ 2004-10-16, 11:30 AM #7
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tnt4
Golden Member
 

¥[¤J¤é´Á: Apr 2002
¤å³¹: 3,375
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http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewto...13405&start=100

kodjou ¥S¯uªº«Ü·d¯º¡A§Ú®tÂI¼Q¶º¡C

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ÂÂ 2004-10-16, 03:06 PM #8
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tnt4Â÷½u¤¤  
¸ô¤H¶Ã¤J
Elite Member
 
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¥[¤J¤é´Á: Oct 2003
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MEDIA

+ Looks like MCC DL media was some kind of test media for DL burning for most manufacturers. It's results are so consistently good across the board.

- With three total failures (not even CATS could read the burns) and other burns being below spec of marginally usable, I consider Ritek DL media to be pretty much useless with those firmware revisions tested.

- Not a single 8x -R or +R media is ready to be overspeed burned succesfully on all drives to 12x or 16x. Some drives succesfully overspeed burn some media, but none of the media is overspeed burned succesfully on all the drives. Neither is none of the drives able to succesfully overspeed burn all the media. In short, overspeed burning is really only for thrill seekers, who don't give a toss about burn quality. IMHO.

SUMMARY
It was interesting to see that the results of firmware are so important on burn quality. Much more so at 16x and 8x than at 4x/2x.

Also, DL at 2.4x is usable with MCC media. This was quite a surprise to me. I was really expecting mediocre results with most. The scans look actually almost good (not superior though).

All in all, a very informative test again. I hope c't will continue to investigate burn quality in the future as well.

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