引用:
作者jphuang
哇,您寫了怎麼多,通常只有在航空界工作的人才會如此關注此事。
|
我每隔一陣子因故得搭飛機, 在還沒有我自己的飛行工具之前 (舉目望向遠方), 關心一下可能搭到機種的相關訊息總是比較好的, 畢竟趨吉避凶是生物的天性, 何況是 山賊 我.
引用:
作者jphuang
手上沒有787的系統說明文件,還好現在有AI,只好求助Copilot。
下面是Copilot的回覆,供您參考,有錯的話,請怪Copilot。
1.有關Air/Ground Mode的判斷:
...恕刪...
2.TCMA的啟動條件,除了飛機需要on the ground外,還需:
• Detect thrust lever mismatch (idle lever, high engine output)
...恕刪...
|
您這是導向式的問答, 建立在 TCMA 決不會出錯的前提下.
您既然用上 AI, 那我也如法炮製, 就不採用導向式問答, 僅僅把 "ai 171 tcma" 作為關鍵字送入 copilot, 獲得回覆如下:
ai 171 tcma
✈️ The crash of Air India Flight AI 171 on June 12, 2025, has drawn intense scrutiny due to a suspected malfunction in the aircraft’s Throttle Control Malfunction Accommodation (TCMA) system—a software component in Boeing 787 Dreamliners that manages engine thrust.
Here’s what’s known so far:
🔍 What Happened
The flight took off from Ahmedabad bound for London but crashed just moments later, killing 260 people, including passengers, crew, and civilians on the ground2.
A Mayday call was issued seconds after liftoff: “Mayday… no thrust, losing power, unable to lift”.
Investigators found the fuel switches had transitioned from “Run” to “Cutoff” mid-flight, causing both engines to lose power5.
🧠 TCMA System Under Investigation
TCMA works with FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) to determine whether the aircraft is airborne or grounded.
If TCMA mistakenly believes the plane is on the ground, it may automatically throttle back the engines, even without pilot input3.
A similar incident occurred in 2019 with a Japanese ANA Boeing 787, where both engines shut down due to a TCMA software glitch—pilots never touched the fuel switches.
🧑✈️ Pilot Controversy
Some media reports suggested the captain manually cut off fuel flow, but India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) and the Federation of Indian Pilots (FIP) strongly denied this claim1.
The AAIB emphasized that the cockpit voice recorder showed one pilot asking why the fuel was cut, and the other replying: “I didn’t touch it”.
⚠️ Regulatory Concerns
Experts argue Boeing may have failed to address known TCMA vulnerabilities despite prior warnings from aviation authorities7.
The AAIB’s preliminary report did not assign blame to the pilots or recommend corrective action for Boeing, raising concerns among aviation attorneys and regulators3.
If you’d like, I can walk you through how TCMA works in more detail—or explore how this incident compares to other aviation software failures.
==========我是分隔線=========
同樣的 key word 送入 google search 的 AI, 獲得回應如下:
ai 171 tcma
The combination of "AI 171" and "TCMA" refers to Air India Flight 171 and a potential involvement of the Thrust Control Malfunction Accommodation (TCMA) system in its crash.
Air India Flight 171 was a scheduled passenger flight from Ahmedabad, India, to London Gatwick, UK, which crashed shortly after takeoff on June 12, 2025. The crash resulted in 241 fatalities among the 242 people on board and 19 deaths on the ground. The preliminary report indicated that shortly after takeoff, both engine fuel switches moved to the "cutoff" position, cutting off fuel flow to the engines and causing a loss of power.
The TCMA system is designed to prevent runaway engines and uncommanded thrust increases by reducing or shutting down engine power if it detects high thrust when the aircraft should not be producing high thrust (e.g., on the ground).
Some aviation experts and pilot organizations have raised concerns about the possibility of a TCMA malfunction contributing to the crash, especially given previous incidents involving Boeing 787s where the system reportedly commanded engine shutdowns due to erroneous sensor input, according to ePlaneAI. The investigation is ongoing, and the final report is expected to provide definitive insights into the root cause of the crash.
=======我是分隔線 ========
兩家不同體系的 AI 都回應 TCMA 被列為調查對象之一, 要不要我找第三家 AI 來試試? 想想看! 若不是疑點, 為何被調查? 你說是吧!
引用:
作者jphuang
所以,Throttle置於Takeoff level位置,TCMA是不會被啟動。
這點YT Pilot們都沒有特別提到,而且初步調查報告也沒有提到TCMA,所以,此事件應該與TCMA無關。
|
試想一個場景, 壓感器的空地狀態訊號被送入某一局域網路, 連接該網路, 包含 TCMA, 黑盒子, RAT 等需要空地狀態的設備, 得以從該網路獲得空地狀態, 不管是數位編碼, 還是直接的電位狀態:
TCMA
↑ RAT
| ↑ REC
| | ↑
+----+----+
|
|
A/G sensor
|
|
---
\\\
假設 AI-171 機上的 TCMA 因故 (譬如廁所管路的漏水導致接觸不良, 軟體 bug, 電源不穩等) 在飛機起飛滑行開始抬頭離地時, TCMA 沒收到或理解壓感器的狀態因而認為還在地面, 雖然其它設備得以辨識為空中模式; 當飛機速度與引擎轉速 (等同油門或推力) 達到條件時, 會不會促使 TCMA 關閉燃油閥門? 所以 TCMA 是有被列入調查的可疑對象之一, 而不是你所主張, 僅以 RAT 有動作或 Throttle 置於 Takeoff level 位置 (簡單說就是大油門), 就做下 "絕不可能 " 的結論:
TCMA------→ RAT
↑
| REC
| ↑
| |
+----*
|
|
A/G sensor
|
|
---
\\\
若 RAT 有動作就認定 TCMA 一定沒問題, 就會讓 TCMA 變成系統關鍵, 只要它出錯 (譬如明明在空中卻認為是在地面) 或故障, 且遇上在空中雙引擎熄火, 會導致 RAT 不會有動作, 相信波音不會這麼設計飛機.
目前就是在調查階段以慢慢釐清各項疑點當中, 是疑點就須清查, 不是疑點查它做甚? 當然! TCMA 最終是有可能被排除在外, 但亦可能被確定是關閉引擎的來源; 若被確定是來源, 就會進一步調查為何導致它異常, 就如同 2019 ANA 的 787 雙引擎熄火的調查過程那般. 以結果論來說最終你有可能是對的, 但 TCMA 目前就是疑點之一, 因為它有權超越機師去關斷引擎燃油.
另外我查看了一部分系統簡圖, 787 燃油開關是透過繼電器進行燃油開關閥門的控制; 對基本電控有認識的人士來說, 會在腦袋裡刻畫一個場景:
Fuel sw
/ V+
+---o o---+ |
| | |
| R|∥ |
| e$∥---+
--- l$∥
- a$∥------+---→Rec
| y|∥ |
| | valve
| | |
+---------*-------+
在這示意圖中, 任一電源不穩或繼電器的接觸不良, 都有可能導致閥門關斷, 而獲得人為關斷燃油開關的假紀錄, 這就是那位鬃毛機師一開始所主張的 "開關的電子訊號".
若要減少假紀錄的可能性, 就需記錄開關狀態, 一個方法是從開關輸出端取樣以取得電壓狀態, 另一個方式是連動, 譬如使用雙刀開關, 一個撥桿驅動兩組開關, 一組用於驅動繼電器, 一組用於狀態顯示.
若要更進一步, 甚至可對兩處電源端取樣, 這樣更容易界定範圍與釐清是否是機師刻意為之還是機械故障(含電力與控制系統).
RAT 開始動作的時間點目前是爭議點之一, 這位影片作者在他幾日前的另一影片就有提出過; 此外一般來說引擎燃油管路會有存油, 閥門關斷若是以馬達驅動也會有延時, 加上各引擎本身與其內部兩組 (787 雙引擎共四組) 啟動兼發電的 235V 變頻交流馬達的轉動慣性, 理論上 RAT 是有可能在開關關閉後幾秒才開始進行彈出作業, 再花幾秒就定位開始發電以提供電力給系統與各類液壓泵浦; 換言之倘若 RAT 在飛機離地那一瞬間就被彈出以啟動 (紀錄影片中飛機離地時出現的煙塵會不會暗示著有啥關聯性?), 就需往這方面調查是人為刻意, 還是設備故障.